Exploring Entrepreneurship and Teaching: An Insightful Conversation with Professor Benedict 

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;34;13 

Unknown 

Welcome back to the episode three of The Leader Lounge today. I’m excited to talk vasser benedict. How are you doing today? First I am swell. My neck. Thanks for having me. And again, as always, we have Dr. Amy Bianca. Hello. It’s great to have you today. Hi, Amy. I’m very excited to be sitting with two of my greatest mentors in the building right now, so it’s fantastic to have you both here today. 

00;00;34;15 – 00;00;54;25 

Unknown 

It’s going to be very exciting conversation, but you want to kick it off? Yeah, I’ve known and known Paul Benedict for a long time, but what I like to get at is sort of a little bit of the important background. Like whatever you want to tell us about your background before you became the director of the Center for Entrepreneurship. 

00;00;54;25 – 00;01;17;23 

Unknown 

So pivotal things, you know, maybe it was like, I don’t know, Lemonade stands as a kid born on a hot, humid summer day in Cincinnati, Ohio, in 1974, was at Children’s Hospital. Was a good. Sam No, it was good. Sam It’s a good ask. Good hospital. Yeah. Yeah. So how how quickly can I get to the nineties? As quickly as you like. 

00;01;17;23 – 00;01;47;14 

Unknown 

Yeah. So I grew up in Cincinnati, came to school here at OSU for undergrad and it is not an exaggeration to say that everything good that has happened in my life started with the decision to come here. I realize it sounds ridiculous, or maybe I sound like a shill and I don’t care. But you know, my my early mentors were all from here, my best friends in life. 

00;01;47;17 – 00;02;26;05 

Unknown 

I met, you know, practically day one, fall quarter freshman year and Hoover House on on South Green. I think it was probably, you know, like Friday, September 19th ish, 1992. And my early career was meeting mentors from here. Fast forward to graduating in 96, moved to Chicago for a few years, moved back to Athens in 2000 to be part of starting a venture fund that would invest in early stage companies here in Central Appalachia. 

00;02;26;05 – 00;03;07;26 

Unknown 

So Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky, the western panhandle of Maryland did that for the better part of a decade, had had some success, learned a ton, sold a couple of companies, buried a few, set out on my own in in 2010. Had some combination of success and hard lessons very hard lessons as I was doing that and and as I was putting a startup in the ground, I a friend asked me to if I’d be interested in teaching a grad seminar here at OSU. 

00;03;08;02 – 00;03;32;24 

Unknown 

It was a nights and weekends thing so I could do it as a side hustle and did it and absolutely fell in love with like, This is what I should be doing at this stage of my career. And so that’s been that was 2013 ish. I full time here at O.U. In 2014, became the director of the Center for Entrepreneurship in 2020. 

00;03;32;24 – 00;03;51;08 

Unknown 

Good timing by me. Yeah. I was going to say round of a kickoff. Yeah. Get, get new, new job at the start of a pandemic scenario. But, you know, I, I say in minute that I’m living the dream I get to, I get to teach what I love at a place that I love. It’s fantastic. And long answer to your question. 

00;03;51;11 – 00;04;15;20 

Unknown 

So how did you get in from 1974 to present really, really well, How long? Yeah. And you’re from Cincinnati? Yes. So being from Cincinnati, what high schools go to? Oh, boy. It’s the obligatory question you have to. If so, I went to St Xavier. Okay. Syntax issue. Yeah. And then final question for Cincinnati. What’s your order from Skyline? 

00;04;15;22 – 00;04;42;19 

Unknown 

Oh, I mean, it’s a five way. Oh, really? Go all the way. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But I should add that one of my high school gigs was running a nacho and Coney stand at then Riverfront Stadium. How I am great. And we serve Goldstar. Oh, God. At the at the ballpark and on purpose. And I hope the Gold Star people aren’t listening. 

00;04;42;22 – 00;05;08;22 

Unknown 

But taking a bucket of gold Star out of the fridge from overnight to warm up before the game. It’s a culinary delicacy. Okay. Okay. You go with that. Yes, yes, Yes, it is. Yes, it is. So I haven’t had Cincinnati chili in quite some time. I love it. And we recently worked together in Europe. I professor for the business ideation course. 

00;05;08;22 – 00;05;26;23 

Unknown 

I think that’s where we just took something like something that. So looking at the plan for me is an amazing course. I mean, it was very experiential. It made you ask a lot of questions about yourself and I love the format I get for it. But kind of digging into your background, you came to it with a ton of that expertise of you doing this before. 

00;05;26;23 – 00;05;47;16 

Unknown 

So can you run me through some of the skill sets you picked up as an entrepreneur before becoming a professor? Well, that’s a great question. You know, I think the most important thing is, is internal. It’s perseverance, it’s hustle, it’s, you know, it’s the ability to communicate a vision. It’s it’s how are you as a leader in a team? 

00;05;47;18 – 00;06;07;27 

Unknown 

You know, the thing that that is always, always made the difference in my career whether, you know, I was in successful companies or not successful companies, it was the people. Right. Are they the right people in the right spots on the bus? And do they do they get it done or not? Is the whole greater than the sum of the parts? 

00;06;07;29 – 00;06;32;02 

Unknown 

Mm hmm. I’m a Springsteen fan and he talks about the band being, you know, one plus one equals three, right? Right. Yeah. And and that’s true in start ups to have in a to a big extent. The other thing beyond that then that is critical is can you find what we call product market fit. Do the dogs eat the dog food? 

00;06;32;05 – 00;07;00;09 

Unknown 

Can you identify a problem that is meaningful to a customer, connect with them on some emotional level, like you’re doing something to make their life better, you’re bringing something good, you’re getting rid of something bad. Do you reach them in some visceral way? And do you have a solution that that addresses that? Right? If you can find that, then all the rest of it, It’s still important. 

00;07;00;09 – 00;07;19;26 

Unknown 

There’s still things you can get wrong. There’s still things that can kill a company. But once you’ve figured that stuff out, the people product market fit. It reduces the amount of risk by orders of magnitude. Right? So, you know, one of the things that you find is, you know, people ask about, well, should I set up as an LLC or should I set up as a C Corp.? 

00;07;19;26 – 00;08;00;24 

Unknown 

And when should I get business cards and have a logo and all that stuff? Should you worry about all that stuff? Sorry, go ahead. Generally not. Some of those. Those are those are not the first things you need to do. Right. And you know, the nice thing about the truth is that, you know, if the issues are people and product market fit, there’s a lot that you can do before you have to march into your current boss’s office and say, I quit and I’m going to go start my own thing, that you can do it as a side hustle, you can explore it, you can identify that that problem for customers while you’re still keeping 

00;08;00;24 – 00;08;28;02 

Unknown 

a job job and supporting your family or yourself, right? And so that the there is a bit of a misconception that entrepreneurship is wildly risky and it certainly has elements of risk to it. But the best entrepreneurs are managers of risk, right? They’re seeking to manage risk down at all stages with the people, with the product market fit with, you know, can you make money at it, right? 

00;08;28;07 – 00;08;55;08 

Unknown 

And you jump and leave your job, job and in nicely, respectfully tell your boss you quit and give notice and not blow up the bridge behind you, you know, and then go all in. Right. Once the customer’s basically demanded of you. Yep. Can you teach those skill sets and education? Yes, you can. They are skills that can be honed. 

00;08;55;10 – 00;09;21;20 

Unknown 

The thing that’s tricky that I will I will totally cop to is that it is difficult to simulate the emotional stakes in the context of a class. Right. The the thing that is difficult, damn near impossible to get across is are the emotional stakes of, you know, making payroll. Is this thing going to work? You know that frequently. 

00;09;21;22 – 00;09;40;15 

Unknown 

You know, we kid about the the the sort of emotional roller coaster of entrepreneurship and the you know, you have this high of, oh, this is great. This is a great idea. And then there’s this crash in this trough of sorrow that might last, you know, a couple of days, a couple of months, a year, I mean, yeah, yeah. 

00;09;40;19 – 00;10;23;08 

Unknown 

So, so that part is really difficult to get across in the context of a class, if I’m being totally honest. You know, I think I’m always trying to experiment with what can we do that gets us closer. Yeah, right. And the other thing that I think that in the context of a class that is useful is if you learn the skills and you have some exposure to it in a in, you know, whether it was a seven week online class or a, you know, traditional face to face undergrad, 15 week meet, twice a week sort of thing that we do here. 

00;10;23;10 – 00;10;47;22 

Unknown 

The the expectation isn’t necessarily that you’re going to take whatever you worked on in the class and that’s your starting right. But that you’ve got you have some you’ve learned some things, you’ve got some muscle memory so that when you come back to it, if you come back to it or something else, that you’re be more prepared. Now, I know one of the features of this is both the Walter Strategic Center and also the MSM program, which we’re operating all these courses on. 

00;10;47;24 – 00;11;12;14 

Unknown 

Yeah. So what’s that format been like working with MSM? Has it provided more opportunities for students and are you talking to a different caliber of people? What’s that certificate been like for you? Well, what is exciting to me is that in my classes that are seven weeks and and largely asynchronous and I hear the chuckle in the chuckle being seven weeks is a lot is a very short time to do a lot. 

00;11;12;14 – 00;11;37;21 

Unknown 

And so I get that and I don’t this wasn’t necessarily the intent the fact that it’s seven weeks does simulate some of the the pressure of, you know, getting to get this done. But back to the question about the MSM and the people, what in my classes, what is exciting is that we’ve got a really interesting mix of people. 

00;11;37;23 – 00;12;05;10 

Unknown 

We’ve got we’ve got people in the masters in management, we’ve got people in the online MBA, which can be from anywhere around the country and I think in some cases around the world. And then also folks in the professional MBA who are by and large working professionals, mostly in Ohio, because they have residences once a month in at our Dublin campus in central Ohio. 

00;12;05;13 – 00;12;27;19 

Unknown 

So you’ve got this really interesting mix of people coming together on a topic. And one of the things that I’ve found and I think I should do more of it, frankly, is that in the best case, the students in the class are learning as much from each other as they are from me. Yes, right. Facilitating that peer to peer interaction. 

00;12;27;21 – 00;12;58;29 

Unknown 

And, you know, I think with a little bit of exposure to the principals, students can get pretty good at sniffing out, you know, what are good entrepreneurial opportunities, what aren’t. Can you communicate it? Well, another thing that’s true about entrepreneurs is that if it’s your baby, like you’re really close to it and it’s your baby and and you love your baby and maybe you’re not always totally rational about communicating, you know what your baby looks like. 

00;12;59;01 – 00;13;32;14 

Unknown 

I’ve had some moments recently where my my love for babies is is this is where maybe it may just maybe wavered. Well, we’ll leave that for the folks at home to imagine what that is. But having an external perspective to react to your how you’re communicating this opportunity is wildly useful and it’s wildly useful whether you’re a serial entrepreneur that’s done it many times over or a student new to it, exploring it for the first time. 

00;13;32;17 – 00;13;51;12 

Unknown 

Right? And I think one of the things that’s both unique with your program, it’s also overlaps other programs, too. One of the things I really appreciate for the MSM program is the fact that every professor approaches the task differently. And one of the things I really appreciate about your course was there is about halfway through one of the courses, you’re like, You know what, I’m done talking, right? 

00;13;51;16 – 00;14;11;03 

Unknown 

You talk to each other, you give each other feedback, and then you use what I’m calling awkward silence, right? You gave it like 30 seconds of you actually not talking. And then everyone unmuted and start talking to each other. That’s unique. I mean, not a whole lot of professors are doing that. Where did you pick up that skill set? 

00;14;11;06 – 00;14;39;21 

Unknown 

I don’t know. I’m continuing to try to get better at it. I it is it is important to not feel the need to fill the air with sound, with the sound of your own voice. Right. And, you know, if you give people time to think about what they want to say and communicate, they’ll probably be willing and able to share more than you might have expected they would. 

00;14;39;24 – 00;15;01;22 

Unknown 

Right. So it’s for me, it’s a work in process. Occasionally I get I get teased for giving long answers to short questions. And it’s not without I. I deserve it from time to time. But yeah, it’s just I got a I mean, literally sometimes I bite my tongue and like, okay, I’m going to wait and this is uncomfortable and I don’t like it. 

00;15;01;22 – 00;15;24;14 

Unknown 

I’m going to resist the temptation to interject. But yeah, it’s important. It’s very interesting to be looking at a question. Do you get. Yeah, I’m just thinking one of the things that I absolutely love about you, Paul, and about your teaching and where you lead your success. Oh, here we go. Well, do you remember that show? Remember the the the Cincinnati and going to a Catholic, all male high school? 

00;15;24;14 – 00;15;50;27 

Unknown 

I’m about to get really uncomfortable with praise I’m excited guy this I can’t I don’t video to watch you can handle this you can’t handle the wedding All right well let’s just put it this way So everybody who is teaching in the MSM program and really our grandparents in general, but we look for people who are phenomenal teachers who may not have taught in that format before, but who just are phenomenal teachers and and who do it their way, whatever that is. 

00;15;50;29 – 00;16;10;03 

Unknown 

Right? So we don’t have two people who teach alike, right? We just don’t we all have, you know, different, different things. So what do you think is or what have you gotten feedback that is unique that students, you know, either an experience you bring to them or something that they come out with that they tell you, Hey, this is really going to help me. 

00;16;10;03 – 00;16;29;13 

Unknown 

It’s kind of different either from you or from your certificate. It’s a really good question. It’s a hard one to answer. It is a hard it’s a really hard one to answer. Nick, as you might have a student though, in learning style for sure, I think also pace of work and freedom are kind of what I kind of put with yours. 

00;16;29;15 – 00;16;45;09 

Unknown 

And again, I’m doing something weird. I’m not sure if I don’t know any other one else is doing them as a program, but I’m doing the data analytics course and also entrepreneurship and which are polar opposite entrepreneurship. So like I’ve really thought about making a business plan and then data is like, here is every single step between here and there, right? 

00;16;45;09 – 00;17;08;07 

Unknown 

So that’s very structured, it’s very unstructured, right? So looking at that side of it, it gives you that freedom and opportunity like to really develop what you want out of it. And we talked about the MSM program before that. It’s exactly you get out what you put in and there are students I know that are that are taking the program or doing the courses are during their assignments and they’re kind of going fast doing that right now, which is fine by everyone. 

00;17;08;07 – 00;17;25;24 

Unknown 

Pick your own adventure, but there’s also students that are engaging. And then what makes you unique is like you’re very interactive with the students, right? You asked them in the beginning, like, how is your week? How is everything going? There’s other professors that jumps around a lecture, right? So in my opinion, that’s probably your unique learning style. Well, I appreciate that very much. 

 00;17;25;27 – 00;18;03;23 

Unknown 

Your grades have already been submitted. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I’m going to take it back. Thank you. My answer is all right. Subpar for what? I do appreciate that. I think the what I. I think it’s genuine. I and it’s important because entrepreneurship is so intensely personal. It’s it’s personal in ways that data analytics isn’t right, that most of the time when you find not just product market fit, but founder market, that is where there’s a problem. 

00;18;03;23 – 00;18;38;10 

Unknown 

You’re trying to address that you have to do it. It’s in your cells. You can’t not address it. You’re like, I, I can’t tolerate a world where this problem still exists. It’s deeply it is deeply emotional. And so trying to understand how students tick and what they’ve what they’ve been through, their lived experience is really important to how I teach the class like, you know, and and giving people freedom to go where they want to go with their ideas. 

00;18;38;12 – 00;19;08;20 

Unknown 

You know, it would be it would be much easier for me if I put you in teams and you brainstormed in your teams on what do we want to start and you do it. And it would be a good, interesting academic exercise and I would have, you know, three or four or five business plans to grade not 30, not 30, but and and I’ve been told on more than one occasion, like, why do you do that? 

00;19;08;22 – 00;19;32;20 

Unknown 

But it it there is a method to it, right. That it is really important that that you have a chance to do your own thing and and you know very few successful businesses are founded by solo operators. It’s important that you find business soulmates or people. Yeah. The chances that you’re going to find that in a class are not so good, right? 

00;19;32;20 – 00;19;53;12 

Unknown 

So I don’t want to force it to that. I appreciate you saying that very much. Next question. Yeah. So you I talk about entrepreneurship as deeply personal and it triggers a lot of emotions. In my experience having a couple companies, the biggest emotion is fear, complete and total paralyzing fear. As an entrepreneur, how do you get past that? 

00;19;53;14 – 00;20;16;06 

Unknown 

Just do it anyway. Do it Scared. I mean, courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is moving forward in spite of fear. Right. And I think I think that that’s true in in entrepreneurship. The and the other thing is to the earlier question about managing risk is manage the fear that you can handle when you can handle it. 

00;20;16;06 – 00;20;48;27 

Unknown 

Right. And don’t take on too much for me in my career, some measure of of fear has been a has been a pretty healthy motivator. The and there’s no question that that some people are better wired for it than others. So yeah just grit your teeth do it scared. Yeah do it scared and know that everybody that’s ever done this stuff is scared. 

00;20;49;00 – 00;21;14;25 

Unknown 

Even even people who’ve done it many times over and have been successful, If they’re doing something new, they’re scared again about the new thing. So, you know, I’ve I’ve had I’ve been lucky to have really good conversations with lots of wildly successful people. And, you know, some of the people that that you would outwardly think of that that person is, you know, has to be more confident than any person I’ve ever met. 

00;21;14;27 – 00;21;41;13 

Unknown 

They’ve been wildly successful. Maybe they’ve they’ve sold a company for $1,000,000,000 or they’re on track to that. Even they have have fear, have uncertainty, have doubt, need mentors, you know, seek advice from other people. So if if the most successful among us feel that, then hopefully that’s liberating for the rest of us mortals. Tastic That was a great closure right there. 

00;21;41;13 – 00;22;04;00 

Unknown 

Is there any other questions you want to. I let that manage the fear. Keep going. Is there anything you want to hit on that you think we missed? Just that. You’re awesome. Oh, thanks, man. And you’re awesome, too, Amy. But we’re so lucky to have. Oh, now you’re like Wennberg in the program and then leading the podcast. It’s tremendous that they have for Amy too, and I’m so glad they keep the family go. 

00;22;04;00 – 00;22;21;23 

Unknown 

And like, I mean, it’s really you’re absolutely incredible. I appreciate it. So is there any shoutouts or thank you that you want to do for anyone else in the entrepreneurship program or anyone else in there? Well, my my colleagues, that that not everybody in the msme gets a chance to meet Krystal Guy or Paul Massey. Look, put away Steve Moser. 

00;22;21;25 – 00;22;51;13 

Unknown 

I know that some of the msme Steve has taught in the msme classes and is great. So I hope everyone has good experiences with all of them and and like I said, it’s it really is the joy of my life to get to do this.